Podcast: Hoe innovation-labs werken bij PVH (Tommy Hilfiger, Calvin Klein) en Brenntag (Chemicaliën)

HelloMasters is de tweewekelijkse podcast van HelloMaaS, waarin Louise Doorn spreekt met de huidige en toekomstige leiders in de Nederlandse marketingscène. CEO’s en CMO’s spreken over de staat van marketing, en de successen én twijfelmomenten uit hun loopbaan. In deze aflevering zijn Délia Lauret en Maarten Stramrood te gast.

Deze aflevering van HelloMasters – met Ellen Bark-Lindhout, voormalig Global Innovation Manager bij Heineken en nu co-founder van Collider Accelerator, als co-host – staat volledig in het teken van corporate innovation-labs en de dynamiek die het leiden van een dergelijk lab binnen een grote corporatie met zich meebrengt. Délia Lauret is director van AREA52, de interne digital incubator van PVH Europe’s Digital HUB (Tommy Hilfiger, Calvin Klein en meer). Maarten Stramrood is Chief Digital Officer bij Brenntag Group en Managing Director van hun digitale hub DigiB.

“When this project started, about four years ago, all the sales people said: you’re gonna go bankrupt if you do this”

In deze podcast maken we gebruik van een aantal stellingen om onze gasten uit te dagen. Eén van deze stellingen gaat in op de rol van innovation-labs binnen corporates. Is het waar dat deze labs hun laatste redmiddel zijn, aangezien corporates zelf moeite hebben met innoveren? Lauret stelt: “For every corporate, it’s a different story. There needs to be a certain willingness. Truly realizing they need to change […] Technology changes, and startups: they’re coming for you.”

Maarten Stramrood geeft aan wat sceptisch te zijn vanwege de vele vormen die gezien kunnen worden als innovatief: “If rising prices is your level of innovation, that’s pretty sad, I would say.”

We spreken tevens over de rol van het team binnen de innovation-labs van Stramrood en Lauret. Als stelling leggen we voor dat dergelijke labs gedoemd zijn te mislukken wanneer de teams geen T-Shaped marketeers hebben. Lauret is het eens met het feit dat teams flexibel moeten zijn: “We’re only four people, so we cannot solely be the data analyst, or the designer. It’s about developing your skills broader.” Stramrood sluit zich hierbij aan en benadrukt de instelling die hierbij komt kijken: “It all has to do with your mindset. Are you eager to learn, are you eager to experiment and take on a challenge? If you have that, everyone can become a bit more T-shaped.”

“Are you eager to learn, are you eager to experiment and take on a challenge?”

Ook de begrippen entrepreneurship versus intrapreneurship komen naar voren. Er is consensus rondom entrepreneurship, met name nogmaals rondom de instelling die dit met zich meebrengt. Lauret legt uit: “I think it’s about self-starting, not having someone telling you what to do, or giving you the order.” We behandelen intrapreneurship als een ‘entrepreneurial mindset’ binnen een corporate. Stramrood is hierover duidelijk en stelt: “At the end of the day, you don’t run your own personal risk, and you get your salary. Either you are on the payroll, or an entrepreneur. For me, there is nothing in between.”

De podcast is ook via iTunes en Spotify te beluisteren.

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Topics

[00:00:28] Intro Louise

[00:01:00] Intro Maarten Stramrood

[00:01:23] Maarten over zijn motivaties

[00:02:40] Intro Délia Lauret

[00:04:10] Stelling: Corporate Innovation labs are just innovation theatre.

[00:05:40] Ellen Bark-Lindhout over open innovatie

[00:06:10] Achtergrond AREA52

There is a lot of opportunity to ideas within the business (PVH), but there is not really an opportunity to develop them, because in the end, we’re also working towards the calendar. We need to create a safe place where we can test, tryout and experiment. – Lauret

[00:08:35] Hoe DigiB is opgezet binnen Brenntag

It all depends what your targets are. There are quite a few companies who use their innovation lab as a showcase. We set ourselves ambitious targets, so now we have to deliver. This puts pressure on ourselves, but also on the mothership. – Stramrood

Besides people from the mother company, we also hired people externally, to have a different mindset. – Stramrood

[00:11:00] De doelstellingen van DigiB

[00:11:30] De doelstellingen van AREA52

The whole mindset of starting small, doing prototypes that are not completely finished, that’s a big shift. – Lauret

[00:12:30] Strekking van AREA52

[00:12:55] Stelling 2: You don’t really need to measure success in the innovation lab

If you don’t set the goals, especially with a declining economy, you get more and more questions. If you’re not able to answer these questions, why you’re doing things, people will be doublechecking their budgets. – Stramrood

[00:14:18] Het opzetten van een business is case in de startfase

Most people make a business case based on assumptions. – Stramrood

[00:15:40] Nieuwe inkijk op consumenten

It’s very hard to put real KPI’s or a business case behind it. Things we also look at is the NPS. – Lauret

[00:16:50] Stelling 3: Corporates can’t really innovate anymore, so the labs are their last resort to get new ideas into the market

For every corporate, it’s a different story. There needs to be a certain willingness. Truly realizing they need to change. Technology changes, and startups, they’re coming for you. – Lauret

[00:19:20] AREA52 en de toekomst

The tricky part is, there are always many ‘what if’s’ and ‘buts’ when you try to do something else, so finding your way through the organisation and seeing how you can actually start really small, or under the radar, is very important. – Lauret

[00:20:00] Stamrood over innovatie

I’m quite sceptical, because I have been around for a long time. – Stramrood

People tend to get a little bit curious, and then all of a sudden there is a new hype and they jump on top of that. – Stramrood

The most disruption is currently happening in the B2B space. – Stramrood

If rising prices is your level of innovation, that’s pretty sad I would say. – Stramrood

[00:22:35] Lauret over nieuwe technologieën

[00:23:00] Stramrood over overschatting

[00:23:30] Bark-Lindhout over het vinden van een balans in corporates

[00:24:30] Tools

Some things just can’t be agile. – Stramrood

There is a big corporation behind us, so that also means a lot of knowledge and power. – Lauret

[00:31:09] Methodologieën en manieren van werken

Use a sprint as inspiration, but don’t make it the holy grail. – Lauret

[00:32:45] Teams, mentaliteit en persoonlijkheid / Stelling 4: The innovation lab is doomed, because they lack T-shaped personalities.

It all has to do with your mindset. Are you eager to learn, are you eager to experiment and take on a challenge. If you have that, everyone can become a bit more T-shaped. – Stramrood

[00:35:30] Intrapreneurship versus Entrepreneurship

At the end of the day, you don’t run your own personal risk and you get your salary. Either you are on the payroll, or an entrepreneur. For me, there is nothing in between. – Stramrood

I think it’s about self-starting, not having someone telling you what to do, or giving you the order. – Lauret

Intrapreneur gives me a bit of the chills, it sounds a bit dirty. – Lauret

There are a lot of aspects of being an entrepreneur, it has to do with mindset indeed.. It’s so important to be creative in finding solutions, the persistence you need in a corporate context as well. – Bark-Lindhout

[00:41:30] M&A

For certain parts of the company it might be more efficient, but on the other hand you want to grow together within the market and world we’re living in. If you’re only going to acquire, it feels almost like the easy way. – Lauret

I always try to do business with startups, so they can learn from us and we learn from them. – Stramrood

I haven’t seen a lot of successful exits with the founders staying. They’re entrepreneurs and cannot, or don’t want to, survive in the corporate environment. – Stramrood

Strong, innovative companies use various methods to innovate. – Bark-Lindhout

[00:45:00] Invloed van hogerop en stimulatie

[00:46:00] Manieren om innovatie te stimuleren

You have to appreciate startups have a different horizon. Especially with cash. – Bark-Lindhout

Innovation needs to be lived throughout the organisation. It cannot be done with a business trip. – Bark-Lindhout

You need each other if you want to do corporate innovation. Running it solo is not going to work – Lauret

[00:49:00] Outro Stramrood

[00:49:45] Werken voor AREA52

[00:50:08] Kennis in corporates die je kunt gebruiken

[00:52:50] Outro

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