Podcast: Sander Nagtegaal (Unless) over de rol van de CEO, het bouwen van teams en fundraising

HelloMasters is de tweewekelijkse podcast van HelloMaaS, waarin Louise Doorn spreekt met de huidige en toekomstige leiders in de Nederlandse marketingscène. CEO’s en CMO’s spreken over de staat van marketing, en de successen én twijfelmomenten uit hun loopbaan. In deze aflevering een gesprek met Sander Nagtegaal.

Samen met co-host Willemijn Schneyder, founder en CEO van SwipeGuide, spreek ik met Sander Nagtegaal, CEO van Unless.com over zijn ervaring als CTO en CEO, hoe lastig het is om een goed team te bouwen en de moeilijkheidsgraad van investeringen. Zowel Willemijn als Sander waren beiden eerder te gast in onze podcast over start-upmythes.

“The hardest thing about raising money is constant disappointment”

Ook in deze podcast bespreken we het belang van teams; iets wat onlosmakelijk verbonden is met start-ups. Nagtegaal legt uit dat hij allereerst mensen inhuurt op basis van de skills die gemist worden binnen het bedrijf, maar dat hierbij de persoonlijkheid van iemand zeker meegenomen wordt: “If you have three really timid people, you need to have an anarchist to compensate for it.”

Uit zijn praktijkervaring legt hij uit dat het inhuren van het juiste personeel essentieel is: “Hiring, especially in the early stages, is the most important thing that you can do wrong.” Ter illustratie geeft hij aan dat wanneer je door de mensen niet met plezier naar je werk gaat, er serieus iets mis is. Het creëren van goede werkcultuur speelt hierin natuurlijk een rol: “I like rules, and therefore I like processes. But at some point, when you work together nicely, process will leave the room.” Tevens legt Nagtegaal uit dat werknemers binnen Unless de mogelijkheid hebben om in zogeheten ‘idea meetings’ hun ideeën vrijuit voor te leggen: “We have regular meetings, every two to four weeks, called idea meetings. Anyone can present any idea that they have been thinking about. It doesn’t really matter what.”

Het onderwerp fundraising komt naar voren. Voor de fundraising van Unless bewandelde Nagtegaal een opvallend pad: “We made a giant list of fifty people who all had value to us […] And we called them.” Dit werkte opvallend goed. Na het bellen van dertig personen op de lijst konden ze hun investeringsronde al afronden. Toch benadrukt Nagtegaal dat het vinden van investeerders zwaar kan zijn en dat hij daarmee heeft leren omgaan: “The hardest thing about raising money is constant disappointment.” Zelfs als je het erg goed doet krijg je dertig keer nee, en één keer ja, en daar moet je mee om leren gaan.

De podcast is ook via iTunes en Spotify te beluisteren.

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Topics

[00:00:00] Intro

[00:00:28] Introduction Louise Doorn, Sander Nagtegaal and Willemijn Schneyder.

[00:01:12] Nagtegaal: “Why do you do what you do?”

[00:01:50] His early career and digital agencies.

I really like to build things that I can consider my baby for a while

[00:02:38] From CTO to CEO.

Basically, the title that was left was CEO

[00:04:05] Nagtegaal about what he likes the least about being a CEO vs CTO.

I really don’t enjoy the administrative stuff, the numbers

[00:04:42] Skillset for these roles.

The different part is that you get interviewed more often, go to presentations and go to events

[00:05:48] What type of background do you need.

It’s about the mix of co-founders that makes it perfect or not

[00:06:25] Nagtegaal about his startup Unless.

We make websites respond like humans would. We change websites depending on whoever is looking at it

Because of my injury, I lost the ability to captivate people. So I really had to learn again how to make sure that people would actually listen to my story

I just want people to communicate better

[00:10:00] The importance of teams and how to build them.

We basically looked at the things we did not have. And then we got them

I like to look at a team like a menu. It has to be balanced. If you have three really timid people, you need to have an anarchist to compensate for it

Every decision you ever make, will come at a cost

Hiring, especially in the early stages, is the most important thing that you can do wrong

[00:12:40] In what area do you have the most mishires?

That’s an easy answer. It’s sales. They are probably the furthest away from my personality type. Plus they’re trained into selling themselves, which makes it confusing

[00:13:44] Hiring people that are similar to you or who look like you.

[00:16:35] Building a culture: experimentation vs growth goals.

We have regular meetings, every two to four weeks, called idea meetings. Anyone can present any idea that they have been thinking about. It doesn’t really matter what

[00:18:55] Importance of process.

I like rules, and therefore I like process. But at some point, when you work together nicely, process will leave the room

[00:20:55] Fundraising – Why crowdfunding?

We made a giant list of fifty people who all had value to us […] And we called them

[00:23:23] Pressure for growth compared to investors.

The investors so far just feel that the vibe is pretty much what they want it to be. So there are no real issues there

[00:25:25] How do you decide how much to raise & when to do it.

I’ve learned that you shouldn’t be too late

If I have 6-7 month runway left, I start raising. Just to be in the clear

VC’s like stories even more than they like tangible businesses

The hardest thing about raising money is constant disappointment

[00:28:00] What’s important to you in selecting VC’s.

It’s mostly gut feeling, I have to like them. I like it when they’re smart in areas where I am not so smart

[00:29:35] Start an advisory board.

[00:31:00] Hiring for marketing.

[00:32:10] Knowledge in the founding team.

[00:34:00] How to decide where to play and how to play

[00:37:30] Personal PR.

It helps to align people vision wise. The more I talk about that, the more clear it is for our employees and stakeholders

[00:41:30] One thing that Nagtegaal would change about marketing.

I would probably like to have a proven marketing strategy for the channels, because we have two channels for sales (sales & marketing)

[00:42:50] Prediction for the year.

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